(NOTE: Watch her full one-on-one interview with NBC Chicago in the video player above)
Four days after being fired by Mayor Brandon Johnson from her position as commissioner for Chicago Department of Public Health, Dr. Allison Arwady, the city's former top doctor, sat down with NBC Chicago's Mary Ann Ahern for an excusive, wide-ranging interview that candidly touched on everything from when to Chicagoans should get their next COVID booster, to the abrupt way Arwady received notice she was being terminated.
Arwady served as the commissioner for the Chicago Department of Public Health throughout the coronavirus pandemic alongside former Chicago Mayor Lori Lightfoot. She became known for holding regular press conferences as well as weekly, live "Ask Arwady" sessions on Facebook and Twitter to answer real-time COVID questions.
Earlier this year, following Lightfoot's reelection loss, questions swirled about whether Arwady would stay on in the next administration. In an interview with NBC Chicago health reporter Lauren Petty in mid-April, the then CDPH commissioner said she was “hopeful” to continue on as the department's leader. One month earlier however, Johnson indicated that he would seek a leadership change.
As of Tuesday, Johnson had not yet given a public indication of his potential pick to lead the department.
Here are five takeaways from Arwady's one-on-one interview.
How Arwady learned she had been fired
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In her interview, Arwady said it wasn't that she was fired, but how she was fired that felt "really disturbing."
"So I got a call from the chief of staff, and I met with him and he said, 'This is a hard discussion, but you are being terminated,'" Arwady said. "And I said, 'That is not a major surprise at this point.' Just knowing the mayor, of course, has the opportunity to bring on whomever he wants. But then what really was disturbing to me, was I said, 'Let's talk timeline,' and he said, 'It's effective immediately.'"
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Arwady was forced to exit her position without being able to address the change with her team or transition her successor into the role.
"I never had a chance to talk to my team, and that really was that was the one thing I asked for in that meeting. I asked, 'Can I at least send an email?'" Arwady said. "I've really tried to model transparency for my team. I think that's how you build trust and I was not able to do that. And, you know, that was my largest concern in a lot of ways. I absolutely love my team and I felt strongly about being able to share even bad news with them directly."
In an email Friday evening, Mayor Brandon Johnson's office confirmed Arwady's firing, but didn't provide a reason or any details.
"This was not entirely unexpected," Arwady said. "You know, [Johnson has] been in office for three months and we want him to be successful. Even now, I want this mayor and his team to be successful. And I kept hoping that there would be an opportunity to talk with him and meet with him, explain the work that the department does. And although I was sometimes in the same room with him in a cabinet meeting, for example, we never exchanged three words. And so again, outcome not a surprise, but the manner of it I think was unnecessarily destabilizing to my department."
There has been speculation that Arwady's firing centered around her response to reopening schools during the COVID pandemic despite some opposition from the city's teachers union, which expressed concerns about return to school. A former teacher himself, Johnson's candidacy for mayor was backed by the CTU.
"COVID was a very difficult time for the entire country and it was a very hard job for me. Whether you are a business owner or you were a childcare provider, it was difficult for all of us and created a great deal of stress. And what I've committed myself to do is to make sure that we have, again, a very collaborative approach of how we assess all of our sister agencies in our departments," Johnson said when asked about his decision to fire Arwady during an unrelated press conference Monday, adding that "every single administration has to be prepared for transition."
Arwady said she didn't know much about the reasoning for her firing or whether it was tied to the reopening of city schools.
"I don't know. And frankly, I don't want to know," she said. "I told my colleagues around the country that, you know, at the end of the day, I'm actually a little bit proud to now have joined the ranks of the hundreds of public health leaders who ultimately lost their jobs for making data-driven decisions during COVID. And I, again, I want this mayor to be successful even now."
What's the current state of the CDPH?
"Usually is there a transition time, an opportunity for the former commissioner to talk to the new commissioner, to say this is how we've laid it out," Arwady said. "However, the circumstances surrounding her departure have left the city's public health department in uncertainty.
"I am very honest when I say what I care about is public, not politics," Arwady said. "I don't know what was happening behind the scenes. What I can say is I'm respectful of this decision. I'm just concerned that the way it was made will actually make it harder to bring in a new commissioner, like someone who really understands public health and has the expertise and the knowledge to to lead this department. That's at the end of the day, really what I care about."
Despite the unexpected abruptness, Chicago's former top doctor said she is still willing to help with the transition, should her help be requested.
"Frankly, whenever a new commissioner eventually is named, I will be happy to talk with that person and I will be happy to explain some of what we've built up," she said. "And I'm really proud of what we've built up over my eight years at CDPH. And I think that there are a lot of things that happen at the health department beyond just sort of the obvious public-facing pieces."
Without a proper transition, some of those pieces, Arwady said, have now become "unnecessarily challenging."
"All of the laboratory work that we do is under my medical license," Arwady said. "Emergency preparedness storage is under my medical license. Many things are happening in a very big and complicated department. And so, you know, over the weekend, I was hearing from team members who were distraught and we were attempting to do, you know, transition work because everybody we've got to make sure that the work continues."
As for who could replace her, Arwady wasn't clear and Johnson has not yet given a public indication of his potential pick.
"I have been telling my team for some time that the city of Chicago has a vetting process when it is looking at leaders," Arwady said. "I am less concerned about any drama that may be happening on social media. I am more concerned about making sure that whoever leads the health department has real public health knowledge. And so that is really what I am interested in. That, I know, is what the mayor has said he is interested in, and I'm looking forward to see who who will be named. But it needs to be somebody who understands public health and the operations of how to protect the city, not just around mental health, not just around COVID, around the amazing range of things that the health department gets to work on."
Did Arwady want to stay?
Arwady told NBC Chicago that it was her hope to stay on as the leader of the Chicago Department of Public Health. However, "it was not a surprise," she said.
"I love my work, I love my team. And that was obviously the mode in which I was operating. I made that really clear," Arwady said. "I think, you know, they offered me and other commissioners this three month trial period. And I think as that trial period went on, the fact that I was not able to meet with the mayor, the fact that I was not involved in decisions or discussions related to health, the fact that I was not able to even speak publicly in many cases about health issues in this city -- I am not naïve, and it was not a surprise."
Arwady said that during the so-called trial period, she was "asked not to do anything public-facing," despite ongoing public health concerns and issues like Chicago's poor quality due to Canadian wildfires.
"Multiple times, including in that setting, I was asked not to do anything public-facing, me or anybody from my department," Arwady said. "And we worked hard behind the scenes to make sure that the right health information was getting out. We got things out on social media. We worked through partners. But yes, that would have traditionally been a standard role for me to play, to stand up with the mayor, for example, or the emergency operations center and talk about the health impacts, because this was a health concern and I was not able to do that."
With COVID cases rising, when should Chicagoans get their next booster?
Concerns are starting to rise as the Chicago area reports what some experts have called a "mini-surge" in cases and hospitalizations begin to experience small increases.
Last week, the Illinois Department of Public Health said the state remained at low levels of COVID transmission, but officials are also urging the public to remain cautious and to begin preparations for a turn toward colder weather.
Does that mean residents should get a booster shot now or wait until the fall when an updated vaccine is expected?
"You should wait," Arwady said. "We anticipate a new vaccine available probably late-September or early-October. That is going to be an update that will be the newest version to help fight off omicron, the type of omicron subvariants we're seeing more recently. And it'll be important that everybody get that booster," Arwady said. "That's what helps get us through the fall. That's what's turned COVID. Even during this time of increased cases, we are seeing zero to one deaths a day. We are seeing handfuls of Chicagoans being hospitalized. When I compare that to the more than 50 Chicagoans a day who were dying during COVID, the, at some points, more than 300 Chicagoans being newly hospitalized every day, it is vaccines and it is treatments that have turned this into a disease that we can coexist with."
Guidance is expected from the CDC’s Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices in the coming weeks, according to a statement.
What's next for Arwady?
While she may no longer be the city's top doctor, Arwady, a Pediatrician and an Internal Medicine doctor said her work in medicine and in the public health sector will continue -- even if she doesn't have an immediate plan.
"I'm not worried about myself," Arwady said. "I have plenty of job options. I'm looking forward to, you know, a vacation that that's not the problem. But I am concerned about my team and and just making sure that all of this good work continues."
"Public health is what I am passionate about," Arwady added. "You know, I will continue raising my public health voice, really advocating for sustained flexible funding and respect for this work. But I am concerned about my team, and I'm concerned a little bit just with the way that this was done, that it will be harder to potentially bring in a real public health professional to want to lead the department."
Shortly after the Mayor's office confirmed that Arwady had been terminated, Chief Medical officer at CDPH Jennifer Seo announced she was resigning.
"Dr. Sor is is staying through the end of the month just so there's a little bit of time to be able to figure out some contingency planning there," Arwady said. "We will work. We always work and figure these things out."
"This is the place that I care about the most," Arwady added. "So regardless of whether I end up working here, whether I end up working on public health issues, you know, in some other setting or nationally, this will stay my home. This will be the place that I care about. This will be the public health department that I care the most about. And I think that is likely to be true for the rest of my life."
Her final message as she exits her role for Chicago is "not focused on the way that it ended," but rather looking forward.
"I want people to know that they have an amazing team protecting their health at the Chicago Department of Public Health. I want them to know that we do a lot more than COVID. I am so proud of the work that we have done on opioids, on HIV, on infant mortality. I am so excited about the healthy Chicago equity zones and the ways in which we've gotten creative to bring vaccines to people at home," she said. "I have a team or I had a team that is creative and innovative and excellent at solving problems, and they care so deeply about protecting the health of Chicago. I want Chicagoans to know that public health is not going anywhere just because COVID is on the downturn right now. And we have to sustain and fund public health departments long-term and make sure that we are as prepared as we can be for whatever is coming next. And I think finally, I want Chicagoans to know that I have loved loved being in this role. It has been such an honor for me, really, the honor of my life. I'm an infectious disease nerd. I love working on outbreaks. I never wanted something like COVID to hit Chicago, but for that to happen at the time when I was in a leadership role in the city that I love with an amazing team, it has been the honor of my life. I am not focused on the way that it ended. I am focused on the future and helping this mayor be successful, support public health and really make sure that the things I care about stay strong in Chicago."
